this post was submitted on 01 Dec 2009
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Should Romney's Faith be an Obstacle? (Re: the Manhattan Declaration) (cnn.com)

submitted 8 months ago by ryanjkirk

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mdundee 1 point2 points 8 months ago* [-]

Allying with evangelicals on moral questions was never a good idea. It is true that we hold some of the same beliefs but there is a world of difference in how we interpret and deal with our on role in relation to those question. While the church preaches repentance by those who sin and love and understanding from the rest of us, many of the evangelical congregations rely on fear, intimidation and hysteria directed against those who sin. I don't condone the sins but I can not knowingly stand side by side with those who use such methods.

Besides. We know that as soon as we have outlived our usefulness they'll go right back to hating and attacking us again. So lets not be useful idiots but rather lets be our own voices speaking for us, not ganging together with those who in a different decade would be part of the lynch mobs.

liahona -1 points0 points 8 months ago[-]

But this is a wonderful opportunity to bring a great number of evangelicals into our fold. Remember, the ultimate goal of the church is to convert every living human to the one true gospel. These people are good at heart, and only a little bit confused(far less so than the atheists). Once they see firsthand the restored gospel of Jesus Christ, they'll surely come into His love.

Imagine what could happen if we were to elect an LDS president, and during his time in office we convert hundreds of thousands of new, American members.

calico 0 points1 point 8 months ago[-]

The ultimate goal of the church is share the gospel, not to convert the world. You can except it or don't and that's all there is to it.

liahona 0 points1 point 7 months ago[-]

The ultimate goal of the church is share the gospel

Source? I've been told specifically that the ultimate goal of the church is to convert each human to the church. This is the whole point of baptisms for the dead. We give each and every person the opportunity to convert.

mdundee 0 points1 point 8 months ago* [-]

It's one thing to have an interfaith exchange. It's another to ally with them. When we ally their conduct reflects back on us.

EDIT: Also remember that the worst atrocities against us were at the hands of other christians, not atheists.

cookiecaper 0 points1 point 8 months ago[-]

I don't think that the Manhattan Declaration will have any relevance in 2012, and I don't think it will significantly effect turnout or votes. This is just political posturing, like most similar propositions. No one finds such declarations binding or relevant anymore.

Our real problem is that nobody is capable of independent thought and they just tout whatever line their favorite pundit feeds them. It's a real problem; I don't have any hope that it can be remedied in America at large, but I hope it can be resolved among the Saints.

ryanjkirk [S] 0 points1 point 7 months ago[-]

I thought this at first too. Then I realized what this is. It's a creed. To us, it's just another creed. But to most protestants, acceptance of their creed defines the term "Christianity."

The Manhattan Declaration is already starting to polarize the protestants, no doubt it will polarize it into a "them against us" scenario down the road.

cookiecaper 0 points1 point 7 months ago[-]

Hmm, yeah, I was drawing that parallel too, but I don't think people care much about creeds, etc., right now. It will be a big deal as long as people talk about it, but I don't that it has enough legs to go on for four years. I still think that everyone will have forgotten by then.

ryanjkirk [S] 0 points1 point 8 months ago[-]

My favorite paragraph from the article:

Now that tradition is to be departed from. The next wave of social conservatism is presenting itself as a particularly Christian cause, with Christian defined in a way that would exclude not only Mitt Romney, but also the man who created Tiny Tim and Ebenezer Scrooge. (Charles Dickens was a Unitarian, not a Trinitarian.) For that matter, neither George Washington, nor John Adams, nor Thomas Jefferson, nor Abraham Lincoln was a believer in the Trinitarian God of the Manhattan Declaration.

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